Dungeness

[sam_t]

Does anyone (brisingamen?) know anything about the plans for an international airport at/near Dungeness? There was some discussion about it on the Today programme this morning but I didn't catch most of it as I was feeding the cats at the time. From what I heard, there seems to be a lot of concern about damage to the nature reserve but the BBC articles I've been able to find (such as this one, from December) don't mention it and I couldn't see anything on the RSPB site.

Correction: I've just found this article from the RSPB which sets out the reasons for which the RSPB are opposing the plans.

ETA: I haven't yet decided whether to do this myself (being a bit short of evidence, currently), but here is the RSPB's page asking people to write to Shepway District Council.

ETA2: Lydd Airport website. The details of future plans are a bit sparse.

Comments

[peake.livejournal.com]

brisingamen will probably be able to tell you a lot more about this because Shepway LibDems are playing a big part in the campaign against the Lydd Airport extension. But to summarise the main points against it:

• It would mean considerable damage to a nature reserve that has been designated a sight of special scientific interest;


• It is right next door to a working nuclear power plant;


• There is absolutely no infrastructure - no road above a B-road goes anywhere near the site, the nearest railway station is, I would guess, a 20-30 minute drive away at best, there is no rail line nearby where a convenient station could be built;


• And the extended airport wouldn't actually serve any useful purpose for the area.

[sam-t.livejournal.com]

Thanks. Those are all good points. Quite apart from the concern about the nature reserve (and I hadn't considered the newts before I read the RSPB's information), is the infrastructure really that bad? I had assumed, especially given that the plans seem to be for a London airport rather than an equivalent to Leeds-Bradford or Robin Hood, that someone would have thought of that. The airport press pack doesn't mention it at all, I notice.

Do you know whether there is any other helpful action that can be taken, other than writing to the district council?

[peake.livejournal.com]

At the moment writing to the Council is probably the best way of keeping them aware of the level of public opposition to these plans.

[maureenkspeller.livejournal.com]

So far there seems to be little consideration being giving to infrastructure planning. Something this size is going to require major road development.

Looking at this map (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=605000&y=135000&z=5&sv=605000,135000&st=4&ar=N&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&ax=606500&ay=121500), it seems clear to me that they are going to have to put in some sort of road to link to the 2070 at Brenzett, to get traffic back out onto the motorway. But the 2070 is a single carriageway road, if a good-quality one, and really couldn't handle the sort of traffic their extension proposes. And the junction at Ashford already takes a pounding. (Curiously, a new junction is being constructed in Ashford at present, but even so ...)

And this presupposes the traffic will all come from the motorway. The condition of the A259 going west wouldn't be able to handle it, and of course, the big government trunking scheme was abandoned a while back.

The nearest railway station is Appledore, which is tiny ... and the service has been downgraded in recent years. The Marsh Rail Link would require serious upgrading – it's the place where commuter cattle wagons that were decommissioned in the 1970s go to die. Seriously, riding the Marsh Link is like travelling back in time ...

The road/bus links are ... winding. One of the reasons that Marsh residents are so supportive of the Air Ambulance Trust is because, literally, their lives depend on it. I know someone from Dymchurch who had to be airlifted to William Harvey after a heart attack, because the ambulance would have taken too long by road.

It doesn't take much to come up with a scenario that runs air crash ... into sea wall, say, or within vicinity of power station ... major failure of emergency services to get out there ...

[sam-t.livejournal.com]

Wow. That's a long way from the motorway. It also looks pretty small at the moment, so clearly it would have to expand quite a lot. Leeds-Bradford (http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=420000&Y=440000&width=700&height=400&gride=&gridn=&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=w3&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=true&zm=0&scale=100000&multimap.x=424&multimap.y=164), for comparison of size and roads. This is also not close to a motorway or dual carriageway and there is no direct rail link (although there is a small station within a mile or so: I don't know how often it is used to get to the airport but I haven't noticed trains going there particularly frequently), but as far as I know it's not so bad that ambulances can't get there in a hurry. I don't know what problems they may have experienced with traffic, either.

[peake.livejournal.com]

According to the planning application they want car parking for 500,000 people a year, and are aiming for 2 million a year. Now take another look at that map and tell me how 2 million people a year are going to get to that airport.

[owlfish]

By boat?

[oursin.livejournal.com]

You mean they couldn't use the Romney Hythe and Dymchurch Light Railway?

Dungeness is so where I would not put an airport. I once had a temp vacation job at the Power Station (yes! I glow in the dark now!) and it took forever to get there from east Folkestone, even with the laid-on minibus for the final leg.

[sam-t.livejournal.com]

I've been on that! I was only about two at the time, so I can't remember a lot about it except an impression of noise, steam, excitement, and confusion about how Historical this was and were all trains really like this in the Old Days, but I have to say that it doesn't strike me as terribly likely commuter transport.

[maureenkspeller.livejournal.com]

Keep the Marsh Special Alliance (http://www.lyddairport-noexpansion.co.uk/)

Lydd Airport Action Group (http://www.kentnet.org.uk/laag/index.htm)

will give you some ideas. I don't know much about LAAG, but it won't surprise you to learn that I know a number of people closely involved with the campaign through the Alliance.

The plan is nonsensical, if you're at all familiar with the Marsh. PK has outlined a number of the major objections, to which I might add ... the land they're intending to use is below sea level (if the pumps are out for more than 24 hours, the water level starts to rise), there appear to be no contingency plans for handling flooding, the level of infrastructure they would require to support the extended airport would seem to require concreting most of the Marsh to deal with building it, and the flight path for the European services they are planning will run right across the towns of Folkestone and Hythe at a disturbingly (in all senses)low level. The usual canard is being played with ... more jobs for the area. But I saw what happened when they claimed that the Channel Tunnel would bring more jobs. It brought a few ... a very few.

[peake.livejournal.com]

But I saw what happened when they claimed that the Channel Tunnel would bring more jobs.

The big thing about the Channel Tunnel - they claimed - was that it would bring jobs, business and visitors to Folkestone. Of course, they then put the terminal in Ashford, so anyone heading for Folkestone would have to get off the Eurostar, turn around, and head back the way they'd come. Guess how many jobs, businesses and visitors that brought into Folkestone.

If that is the sort of forward planning/wishful thinking going on at Lydd, the result is going to be a disaster without any benefits whatsoever.

I am, of course, cynically amused that they want to extend Lydd Airport just at the time when everyone is being told to cut down on air travel for environmental reasons.

[sam-t.livejournal.com]

And when other regional airports are not doing too well. Sheffield City Airport is finally closing (http://www.uk-airport-news.info/sheffield-airport-news-160107.htm) after running scheduled flights for only five years - between 1997 and 2002. Exeter airport has been sold (again) (http://www.uk-airport-news.info/exeter-airport-news-090107.htm), although that may not mean that it is scaled down or closed. There is a bit of an ominous ring to the phrase "ensuring better value for money", however.

[sam-t.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the information: it looks very useful.

I have to say that this is sounding more farcical by the minute.

When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp...

[maureenkspeller.livejournal.com]

Well, quite. I hadn't given it a huge amount of thought one way or another until last summer. Assorted campaigners were banging on about it and I nodded. But then I went down to Dungeness with the party chair to drop off some equipment after the Day of Syn; I'd not been down to Dungie for ages, and was enjoying the view, and then he started pointing out where the airport was, and I looked at it and I thought 'this is just insane'.